(2017Translation) 知魚樂

Primary Source
	Title
	English	Knowing the joy of fish
	Chinese	知魚樂(Zhi yu le)
	Korean(RR)	지어락
	Text Details
	Genre
	Type
	Author(s)	Zhuangzi 莊子
	Year
	Source
	Key Concepts
	Translation Info
	Translator(s)	Participants of 2017 Summer Hanmun Workshop (Intermediate Training Group)
	Editor(s)
	Year	2017

Original Script

莊子與惠子遊於濠梁之上。莊子曰：「儵魚出遊從容，是魚樂也。」惠子曰：「子非魚，安知魚之樂？」莊子曰：「子非我，安知我不知魚之樂？」惠子曰：「我非子，固不知子矣；子固非魚也，子之不知魚之樂全矣。」莊子曰：「請循其本。子曰『汝安知魚樂』云者，既已知吾知之而問我，我知之濠上也。《莊子.秋水》

Translation

Student 1 : Sanghoon Na

Zhuangzi and Huizi {00 A note about who Huizi was?00} were strolling on the stone bridge over the Hao [River]. Zhuangzi said, 'minnows^[1] come out to swim relaxedly^[2]. That is the joy of fish.' Huizi said, 'You are not a fish; how do you know the joy of fish?' Zhuangzi said, 'You are not me. How do you know that I do not know the joy of fish?' Huizi said, '[Since] I am not you, it's true that I do not know you. [But] you certainly are not a fish. [Therefore,] It is absolutely true^[3] that you do not know the joy of fish. Zhuangzi said, 'Let us please go back to the original question. What you asked was "How do I know the joy of fish?". You already knew that I knew it, but you asked me.^[4] [Likewise] I knew it over the Hao [River].^[5]

Student 2 : Younès M'Ghari

Zhuangzi and Huizi {00 Who is Huizi?00}were walking on the top of the Hao (Chinese: 濠)¹ bridge. Zhuangzi said: “Fishes come out and swim very rapidly for leisure, that is the pleasure of fishes.” Huizi answered: “You are not a fish; how do you know the pleasure of fishes?” Zhuangzi said: “You are not me; how do you know that I do not know the pleasure of fishes?” Huizi answered: “I am not you, I apparently do not know you; [but] apparently you are not a fish, you cannot know the pleasure of fishes.” Zhuangzi said: “Let’s go back to the beginning. What you asked by “How do you know the fishes are happy?”, you already knew that I knew it but you asked [it to] me; I knew it above the Hao.”

¹: name of a river {00 Where is it?00}.

Student 3 : Petra Sváková

Zhuangzi and Huizi¹ {00 Who is Huizi? 00} were roaming on the top of the stone bridge over the Hao River. Zhuangzi said:＂The little fishes come out and swim around leisurely. Such is the joy of fish." Huizi said: “You are not a fish, [so] how do you know the joy of fish?" Zhuangzi said: "You are not me, [so] how do you know that I do not know the joy of fish? Huizi said: "I am not you, [so] indeed I do not know you. [But] clearly, you are not a fish, [therefore] your nescience {00 Nice! 00}of the joy of fish is completed." Zhuangzi said: "Please, [let's] go back to the beginning. You asked [me]: 'How do you know the joy of fish?' [However, you] already knew that I knew it and [still you] asked me. I knew it [on the bridge] over the Hao River."

¹ Huizi (惠子, 370-310BC), also known as Huishi (惠施), was a Chinese philosopher during the Warring States period and a representative of the School of Names.

Student 4 : (Write your name)

Zhuangzi together with Huizi¹ wandered to the top of the Hao River bridge.

Zhuangzi said, "The small fish come out to play at leisure, this is the fish's happiness."

Huizi said, "You're not the fish, how do you know the fish's happiness?"

Zhuangzi said, "You're not me, how do you know I don't know the fish's happiness?"

Huizi said, "I'm not you; evidently (I) don't know you. You're evidently not the fish; your not knowing the fish's happiness is total."

Zhuangzi said, "[Let's] go back to the origin, if you please. You said, 'How do you know the fish's happiness?' Already yourself knows I know it and asked me, [and] I knew it above the Hao River."

¹ Hui Shi (惠施, 4th century BCE), was a Mohist philosopher and statesman from the state of Song (modern-day Henan) during the Warring States period. {00 Good! 00}

Student 5 : (Jae Yong Chang)

Zhuangzi and Huizi {00 Who is Huizi? 00} roamed about {^on^}a stone bridge over the Hao River. Zhuangzi said, “A small fish comes out, swimming around leisurely. That is the enjoyment of fish.” Huizi said, “You are not a fish. How did you know the enjoyment of fish?” Zhuangzi said, “You are not me. How do you know that I do not know the enjoyment of the fish?” Huizi said, “I am not you. Apparently I do not know you. [And] you certainly are not a fish. {^That you don't know the joy of fish is complete.^}” Zhuangzi said, “Please let's {^go^}back to the beginning.” You said, "How do you know fish is happy?” You already knew that I knew it and then asked me, I already knew it on the stone bridge over the Hao River.

Student 6 : (Goeun Lee)

Zhuangzi together with Huizi 1) was roaming about on a stone bridge over a moat. Zhuangzi said, “[As I see] the small fish coming out and swimming leisurely, they must be happy. Huizi said, “You are not fish. How do you know that fish is happy?” Zhuangzi said, “You are not me. How do you know that I do not know the joy of fish?” Huizi said, “I’m not you. Therefore, I don’t know you; you are apparently not fish, so you must not know the joy of fish.” Zhuangzi said, “Let us go back to the beginning. You told me how I knew the joy of fish, [as if] you already knew my knowing of the fish, and questioned me. [Since you are not me, how do you know about my knowing or not knowing?] I realized this on the moat.

1) Hui Shi (惠施; Huì Shī; 370–310 BCE), or Huizi (惠子; Huìzǐ; "Master Hui"), was a Chinese philosopher during the Warring States period. He was a representative of the School of Names (Sophists or Dialecticians), and is famous for ten paradoxes about the relativity of time and space.

Student 7 : (Alexandre Le Marchand)

Zhuangzi and Huizi were roaming above the stone bridge of Hao. Zhuanzi said: “When small fishes pull their head out of the water to play, this is the joy of fishes. Huizi said: “You are not a fish, how can you know the fish’s joy?” so Zhuangzi said: “you are not me, how can you know I don’t know the fish’s joy?” And Huizi said: “Since I am not you, by nature I don’t know what you know, and since you are not a fish you don’t not what is fish’s joy at all”. So Zhuangzi respond: “please let’s consider this from the beginning. You told me: “How can you know the joy of fish” that’s what you said, so you already knew what I knew and you asked me. I knew it since we were above the bridge of Hao.

Student 8 : (Bryan Sauvadet)

“Zhi yu le” 知魚樂 [Knowing the joy of fish], Zhuangzi

莊子與惠子遊於濠梁之上。

Zhuangzi and Huizi {00 Who is Huizi? 00} are roaming on the stone bridge over the Hao River.

莊子曰：「儵魚出遊從容，是魚樂也。」

Zhuangzi said: “a little fish come out and play at their ease that is the enjoyment of the fish.”

惠子曰：「子非魚，安知魚之樂？」

Huizi said: “You are not a fish, how do you now the fish’s enjoyment?”

莊子曰：「子非我，安知我不知魚之樂？」

Zhuangzi said: “You are not me, how do you know that I don’t know the enjoyment of the fish?”

惠子曰：「我非子，固不知子矣；子固非魚也，子之不知魚之樂全矣。」

Huizi said: “I don’t know you, but you, apparently, are not a fish, so you don’t know the complete enjoyment of the fish? {%%You not knowing the joy of fish is complete.%%}”

莊子曰：「請循其本。子曰『汝安知魚樂』云者，既已知吾知之而問我，我知之濠上也。」

Zhuangzi said: “Go back where are {%%[we]%%} started, you said ‘How do you know fish is happy?’ that mean that you really know that I know and ask me, and I know it over the Hao River.

Student 9 : HeeJin Lee

5. Zhuangzi and Huizi roamed on top of a bridge [on] Hao River. Zhuangzi said: "Small fish leave[,] roam [and] follow leisurely, this is the joy [of] fish." Huizi said: "You [are] not fish, [so] how [can you] know the joy of fish?" Zhuangzi said: "You [are] not me, how [can you] know [that] I [do] not know the joy of fish?" Huizi said: "I [am] not you, [and] apparently [do] not know you, you apparently [are] not fish, [so] your not knowing [of] the joy of fish [is] complete." Zhuangzi said: " I beg [you] to go [back around [to] its beginning. You said 'how [can] you know the fish['s] joy, [you] already knew [that] I knew [of] it and asked me, I knew it on [the] Hao River."

Student 10 : Jelena Gledić

Zhuangzi and Huizi^[6] were roaming along the bridge on the Hao^[7]. Zhuangzi said: “The sharpbelly^[8] comes out and roams freely and effortlessly, that is the joy of fish.” Huizi said: “You are not fish, whence do you know the fish’s joy?” Zhuangzi said: “You are not me, whence do you know I do not know the fish’s joy?” Huizi said: “I am not you, clearly I do not know [what] you [know]. You are clearly not fish, so it stands that you do not know the fish’s joy.” Zhuangzi said: “Let us please go back to the start. You said ‘Whence do you know the joy of fish’. You already knew that I know [the joy of fish], and you asked me [where from I know it], and [my answer is] I know it from being on the Hao^[9].” “Zhuangzi, Autumn Floods”

Student 11 : (Write your name)

Student 12 : (Write your name)

Student 13 : (Write your name)

Student 14 : (Write your name)

↑ [1] 儵 : 역주2. 피라미가 나와서 한가로이 놂. 儵는 피라미. '조'로 읽는다. 徐邈은 음을 條로 읽어야 한다고 풀이했다. 盧文弨는 “儵는 鯈(조)로 써야 한다. 注의 글자도 마찬가지이다. 이 책 안에서는 혼용하는 경우가 많다[儵當作鯈注同此書內多混用].”고 풀이했다.
↑ [2] 從容 : 역주2. 從容에는 여러 가지 뜻이 있지만 여기서는 한가로이 노니는 모양. 成玄英은 “從容은 마음 놓고 노는 모양이다[從容放逸之貌也].”고 풀이했다.
↑ [3] 全矣 : 역주5. 全矣는 틀림없다는 뜻. 方勇‧陸永品은 혜시가 자신의 주장이 완전하다는 뜻으로 말한 것이라고 풀이했다.
↑ [4] 既已知吾知之 : 역주8. 이미 내가 그것(물고기의 즐거움)을 알고 있음을 알고서 나에게 물어온 것일세. 내가 물고기의 즐거움을 이미 알 수 있다고 인정한 것이라는 뜻. 곧 자네가 내가 아닌데도 내가 물고기의 즐거움을 아는지 모르는지를 자네가 알 수 있다고 말한 것과 다를 바 없다는 뜻. 실제 혜시의 언급이 이런 뜻은 아닌데 장자가 슬쩍 왜곡한 것이다.
↑ [5] 我知之濠上也 : 역주9. 나는 그것을 濠水 가에서 알았지. 장자가 혜시가 어떻게 알 수 있느냐[安知魚樂]고 물은 것을 일부러 “어디에서 알았느냐?”고 물은 것처럼 슬쩍 왜곡해서 “어디서 알긴 어디에서 알아? 濠水 가에서 알았지.” 하고 농담한 것이다. 郭沫若은 莊子가 惠施의 본의를 일부러 곡해해서 安을 何處의 뜻으로 쓰고 일부러 그 장소(濠上)를 말했다고 했는데 탁견이다.
↑ 惠子, also known as Hui Shi, a Chinese philosopher from the Warring States period, known as a representative of the School of Names, who were akin to sophists.
↑ Ancient name for a tributary of the Huaihe River in present-day Anhui province.
↑ Hemiculter leucisculus, a freshwater fish found in East Asia.
↑ Based on this story, he expression “on the Hao” (濠上) came to be used as a metaphor for enjoying oneself and having fun without much thinking.

[1] [1] 儵 : 역주2. 피라미가 나와서 한가로이 놂. 儵는 피라미. '조'로 읽는다. 徐邈은 음을 條로 읽어야 한다고 풀이했다. 盧文弨는 “儵는 鯈(조)로 써야 한다. 注의 글자도 마찬가지이다. 이 책 안에서는 혼용하는 경우가 많다[儵當作鯈注同此書內多混用].”고 풀이했다.

[2] [2] 從容 : 역주2. 從容에는 여러 가지 뜻이 있지만 여기서는 한가로이 노니는 모양. 成玄英은 “從容은 마음 놓고 노는 모양이다[從容放逸之貌也].”고 풀이했다.

[3] [3] 全矣 : 역주5. 全矣는 틀림없다는 뜻. 方勇‧陸永品은 혜시가 자신의 주장이 완전하다는 뜻으로 말한 것이라고 풀이했다.

[4] [4] 既已知吾知之 : 역주8. 이미 내가 그것(물고기의 즐거움)을 알고 있음을 알고서 나에게 물어온 것일세. 내가 물고기의 즐거움을 이미 알 수 있다고 인정한 것이라는 뜻. 곧 자네가 내가 아닌데도 내가 물고기의 즐거움을 아는지 모르는지를 자네가 알 수 있다고 말한 것과 다를 바 없다는 뜻. 실제 혜시의 언급이 이런 뜻은 아닌데 장자가 슬쩍 왜곡한 것이다.

[5] [5] 我知之濠上也 : 역주9. 나는 그것을 濠水 가에서 알았지. 장자가 혜시가 어떻게 알 수 있느냐[安知魚樂]고 물은 것을 일부러 “어디에서 알았느냐?”고 물은 것처럼 슬쩍 왜곡해서 “어디서 알긴 어디에서 알아? 濠水 가에서 알았지.” 하고 농담한 것이다. 郭沫若은 莊子가 惠施의 본의를 일부러 곡해해서 安을 何處의 뜻으로 쓰고 일부러 그 장소(濠上)를 말했다고 했는데 탁견이다.

[6] 惠子, also known as Hui Shi, a Chinese philosopher from the Warring States period, known as a representative of the School of Names, who were akin to sophists.

[7] Ancient name for a tributary of the Huaihe River in present-day Anhui province.

[8] Hemiculter leucisculus, a freshwater fish found in East Asia.

[9] Based on this story, he expression “on the Hao” (濠上) came to be used as a metaphor for enjoying oneself and having fun without much thinking.

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