"(Translation) 蝴蝶夢"의 두 판 사이의 차이

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(Translation)
 
(사용자 4명의 중간 판 5개는 보이지 않습니다)
9번째 줄: 9번째 줄:
 
|Year =  
 
|Year =  
 
|Key Concepts=  
 
|Key Concepts=  
|Translator = [[2018 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate)#Participants | Participants of 2018 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate Training Group)]]
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|Translator = [[2018 Summer Hanmun Workshop (Intermediate)#Participants | Participants of 2018 Summer Hanmun Workshop (Intermediate Training Group)]]
 
|Editor =  
 
|Editor =  
 
|Translation Year = 2018
 
|Translation Year = 2018
  
 
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=='''Original Script'''==
 
=='''Original Script'''==
33번째 줄: 36번째 줄:
 
*Discussion Questions:
 
*Discussion Questions:
 
+ I found a brief but very good (and in line with my view :)) discussion on the sentence 不知周也 in Chong, Kim-chong. ''Zhuangzi's Critique of the Confucians: Blinded by the Human'', SUNY Press, 2016, page 46. The author translated it even more vaguely in an attempt to keep the plurality of interpretations of the original: "No awareness of Zhou."<br />
 
+ I found a brief but very good (and in line with my view :)) discussion on the sentence 不知周也 in Chong, Kim-chong. ''Zhuangzi's Critique of the Confucians: Blinded by the Human'', SUNY Press, 2016, page 46. The author translated it even more vaguely in an attempt to keep the plurality of interpretations of the original: "No awareness of Zhou."<br />
 +
(YO) Right. If we say "I did not know I was Zhou", then it would presuppose that I be Zhou as a fact.
 +
(JG) Great! Thank you. Finally :)
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+ (YO) 栩栩然胡蝶也 is an emphatic pattern, so: "Vivid and joyous was the butterfly, content and at ease, unaware of Zhou!"<br />
 +
(JG) I like it, thank you!
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+ A usual translation of 物化 is 'transformation of things' but "becoming/transforming into a thing" is quite appropriate here.<br />
  
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(JG) I did think about which solution to use, so I am glad you approve. I also think it does suit this particular text better.
  
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(Fran): The transition from talking about Zhuang Zhou in the third person to the first person voice in the third sentence might be confusing to some readers. I might render the first sentence into: "Once I, Zhuang Zhou, dreamed of being a butterfly." I'm curious about your line, "This is called becoming a thing," though I suspect this would take us down the rabbit hole of interpreting Zhuangzi's philosophy!<br />
 +
(JG) As for the first comment, I agree, it is a better solution - thank you! As for 物化, it is bit of a rabbit hole :) However, briefly (if that is possible), here is my reasoning. As Prof. Oh noted, the usual translation is "transformation of things", but this term is mostly used in post-hoc interpretations of Zhuangzi's entire philosophy, so I don't think it is necessary to blindly adhere to that solution. Furthermore, I think the usual translation misses the strength of the N+化 pattern, because 物化 literally means "thingization" :) I don't think my suggestion is perfect, but I believe it does bring us closer to the original focus - 物 as a generic term (when you say "things" for me it sounds there are different kinds, whereas 物 is all things), and 化 as a process not necessarily happening to the 物 (you become a thing, but it is not stated here that a thing becomes a thing, as the term "transformation of things" implies).     
  
[[Category:2018 Hanmun Summer Workshop]]
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[[Category:2018 Summer Hanmun Workshop]]
 
[[Category:Intermediate Training Group]]
 
[[Category:Intermediate Training Group]]

2018년 7월 19일 (목) 08:20 기준 최신판



Original Script

昔者莊周夢為胡蝶,栩栩然胡蝶也,自喻適志與!不知周也。俄然覺,則蘧蘧然周也。不知周之夢為胡蝶與,胡蝶之夢為周與?周與胡蝶,則必有分矣。此之謂物化。 《莊子.齊物論》


Translation

Student Translation : Jelena Gledić


Once Zhuang Zhou dreamed of being a butterfly. The butterfly was vivid and joyous, content and at ease. I did not know of Zhou. Suddenly I was awake, and apparently, I was Zhou. I did not know if Zhou dreamed of being a butterfly, or the butterfly was dreaming of being Zhou. Zhou and the butterfly, they must be differentiated. This is called becoming a thing. “Zhuangzi – On the uniformity of things”

  • Discussion Questions:

+ I found a brief but very good (and in line with my view :)) discussion on the sentence 不知周也 in Chong, Kim-chong. Zhuangzi's Critique of the Confucians: Blinded by the Human, SUNY Press, 2016, page 46. The author translated it even more vaguely in an attempt to keep the plurality of interpretations of the original: "No awareness of Zhou."
(YO) Right. If we say "I did not know I was Zhou", then it would presuppose that I be Zhou as a fact. (JG) Great! Thank you. Finally :) + (YO) 栩栩然胡蝶也 is an emphatic pattern, so: "Vivid and joyous was the butterfly, content and at ease, unaware of Zhou!"
(JG) I like it, thank you!

+ A usual translation of 物化 is 'transformation of things' but "becoming/transforming into a thing" is quite appropriate here.

(JG) I did think about which solution to use, so I am glad you approve. I also think it does suit this particular text better.

(Fran): The transition from talking about Zhuang Zhou in the third person to the first person voice in the third sentence might be confusing to some readers. I might render the first sentence into: "Once I, Zhuang Zhou, dreamed of being a butterfly." I'm curious about your line, "This is called becoming a thing," though I suspect this would take us down the rabbit hole of interpreting Zhuangzi's philosophy!
(JG) As for the first comment, I agree, it is a better solution - thank you! As for 物化, it is bit of a rabbit hole :) However, briefly (if that is possible), here is my reasoning. As Prof. Oh noted, the usual translation is "transformation of things", but this term is mostly used in post-hoc interpretations of Zhuangzi's entire philosophy, so I don't think it is necessary to blindly adhere to that solution. Furthermore, I think the usual translation misses the strength of the N+化 pattern, because 物化 literally means "thingization" :) I don't think my suggestion is perfect, but I believe it does bring us closer to the original focus - 物 as a generic term (when you say "things" for me it sounds there are different kinds, whereas 物 is all things), and 化 as a process not necessarily happening to the 物 (you become a thing, but it is not stated here that a thing becomes a thing, as the term "transformation of things" implies).