"(2017Translation) 矛盾"의 두 판 사이의 차이
Jelenagledic (토론 | 기여) (→Student 10 : Jelena Gledić) |
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| (사용자 11명의 중간 판 36개는 보이지 않습니다) | |||
| 1번째 줄: | 1번째 줄: | ||
| − | {{Primary Source | + | {{Primary Source Document3 |
|Image = 한비자모순.JPG | |Image = 한비자모순.JPG | ||
|English = Spear and shield | |English = Spear and shield | ||
| − | |Chinese = 矛盾 | + | |Chinese = 矛盾(Maodun) |
|Korean = 모순 | |Korean = 모순 | ||
|Genre = | |Genre = | ||
|Type = | |Type = | ||
| − | |Author = Han Fei zi 韓非子 | + | |Author = ''Han Fei zi'' 韓非子 |
|Year = | |Year = | ||
|Key Concepts= | |Key Concepts= | ||
| − | |Translator = [[2017 Summer | + | |Translator = [[2017 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate)#수강생 Participants | Participants of 2017 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate Training Group)]] |
|Editor = | |Editor = | ||
|Translation Year = 2017 | |Translation Year = 2017 | ||
| 36번째 줄: | 36번째 줄: | ||
Someone asked: “If you pierced your shield with your spear, what would it be like?” | Someone asked: “If you pierced your shield with your spear, what would it be like?” | ||
The man could not answer. | The man could not answer. | ||
| − | So a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot | + | So a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot be in the same generation and stand [together]. |
==='''Student 2 : Younès M'Ghari'''=== | ==='''Student 2 : Younès M'Ghari'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | Among the people of Chu, there was someone selling spears and shields; he was praising them saying: "[With] The solidity of my shield, nothing can go through [it]." Again, he praised his spear saying: "[With] The sharpness of my spear, there is nothing that it does not go through." Someone said: | + | Among the people of Chu, there was someone selling spears and shields; he was praising them saying: "[With] The solidity of my shield, nothing can go through [it]." Again, he praised his spear saying: "[With] The sharpness of my spear, there is nothing that it does not go through." '''Someone said: Your spear going through your shield (%% If you lanced/pierced your shield with your spear,%%)''', how would that be ?" To this, he could not answer. As a matter of fact, a shield that nothing can go through and a spear that can go through anything cannot coexist in the same time. |
==='''Student 3 : Petra Sváková'''=== | ==='''Student 3 : Petra Sváková'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | Among the people of the state Chu, there was a man who was selling a spear and a shield and he was praising them and said: "My shield is so strong that nothing can pierce it." Also he praised his spear saying: "There is nothing among things the sharpness of my spear cannot penetrate." Someone said: "[What if I try to] | + | Among the people of the state Chu, there was a man who was selling a spear and a shield and he was praising them and said: "My shield is so strong that nothing can pierce it." Also he praised his spear saying: "There is nothing among things the sharpness of my spear cannot penetrate." Someone said: "[What if I try to] pierce your shield with your spear, how would that be?" He could not response to that. So the shield which cannot be penetrated and the spear which cannot be pierced, they cannot exist in the same generation. |
==='''Student 4 : (Write your name)'''=== | ==='''Student 4 : (Write your name)'''=== | ||
| 58번째 줄: | 58번째 줄: | ||
He could not answer. | He could not answer. | ||
| − | So, a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear [with] nothing [it] pierces not cannot [ | + | So, a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear [with] nothing [it] pierces not cannot [within the] same time exist. |
| − | ==='''Student 5 : | + | ==='''Student 5 : Jae Yong Chang'''=== |
---- | ---- | ||
| − | There was a man in the state of Chu who was selling a shield and a spear. (He was) proudly saying that | + | There was a man in the state of Chu who was selling a shield and a spear. '''(He was) proudly {%%He praised them,%%)''' saying that his shield was so strong that nothing made it damaged. |
| − | Saying again, my spear was also so sharp on anything that it’s impossible to be damaged. | + | '''Saying again, {Again, praising them}%%''', he said my spear was also so sharp '''on anything that it’s impossible to be damaged {%%that it can make damage on anything%%}'''. |
| − | A person asked if you were to take your spear to strike your shield, what would | + | A person asked, "if you were to take your spear to strike your shield, what would happen? Then he couldn’t answer. |
| − | Generally speaking, a shield that cannot be damaged and a spear that cannot be damaged, | + | Generally speaking, a shield that cannot be damaged and a spear '''that cannot be damaged {%%that can damage anything%%}, cannot be in the same world and exist. |
| − | ==='''Student 6 : ( | + | ==='''Student 6 : (Goeun Lee)'''=== |
| + | |||
| + | Among the Chu people, there was a person selling shields and spears. '''Proudly {%%Praising them,%%}''' he said, “'''My shield is strong, so {%%With the hardness of my shield,%%}''' nothing can make a hole in it!” | ||
| + | He also boasted his spears saying, “'''My spear is sharp, so {%%The sharpness of my spear%%}''' there is nothing it cannot penetrate.” '''{00how do you reflect 於物?00}''' Someone said, “[Try] your spear on your shield to make a hole. How about that?”That person was unable to answer to that. Surely it is impossible that a shield which is '''unpenetrable {%%impenetrable%%%}''' and a spear which penetrates everything coexist in the same age. | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | |||
==='''Student 7 : (Alexandre Le Marchand)'''=== | ==='''Student 7 : (Alexandre Le Marchand)'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | In the kingdom of Chu was a man selling spears and shields. He praises it saying this: “the hardness of my shields, there is nothing that can break through it”. And then he adds praise about he’s shield saying: “the sharpness of my spear, there is nothing it can’t be damage by it”. Someone said: | + | In the '''kingdom {%%State%%}''' of Chu was a man selling spears and shields. He praises it saying this: “the hardness of my shields, there is nothing that can break through it”. And then he adds praise about '''he’s {%%his%%%}''' shield saying: “the sharpness of my spear, there is nothing '''it can’t be damage {%%that cannot be damaged%%}''' by it”. Someone said: “'''What {%%How%%}''' about using one of your spears to break through one of your shields?” The seller was unable to respond to this. Well, '''there is no way a spear is damageable without any damaged shield. {00 This part is not clear. Retry?00}''' It cannot occur at the same moment and both standing up. |
it do not damaging a shield. | it do not damaging a shield. | ||
| − | ==='''Student 8 : | + | ==='''Student 8 : Bryan Sauvadet'''=== |
----楚人有鬻楯與矛者，譽之曰吾楯之堅，莫能陷也。 | ----楚人有鬻楯與矛者，譽之曰吾楯之堅，莫能陷也。 | ||
| − | In the kingdom of Chu 楚 , there was a man who sells shields and spears. He praised the hardness of his shields; such he said “To the views of my shields, nothing can break through it.” | + | In the '''kingdom {%%State%%}''' of Chu 楚 , there was a man who '''sells {%%sold%%}''' shields and spears. He praised '''the hardness of his shields {00 just "shield" may be ok for 之, but "the hardness..." is too much and better be added in the next clause00}'''; '''such {^that^}''' he said, '''“To the views of my shields, {00This is not clear. Which part does it translate?00}''' nothing can break through it.” |
又譽其矛曰吾矛之利，於物無不陷也。 | 又譽其矛曰吾矛之利，於物無不陷也。 | ||
| − | Also, he praised his spear and said | + | Also, he praised his spear and said “'''To {%%With%%}''' the hardness of my spears, there is nothing it cannot spike into. |
或曰以子之矛陷子之楯，何如？ | 或曰以子之矛陷子之楯，何如？ | ||
| − | Someone question the seller and said “If you pierce your shield with your spear, what’s going to | + | Someone question the seller and said “If you pierce your shield with your spear, what’s going to happen?” |
| 106번째 줄: | 108번째 줄: | ||
==='''Student 9 : HeeJin Lee'''=== | ==='''Student 9 : HeeJin Lee'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | Among the people of Chu, [there was] one who sold shields and spears, [he] praised them [and] said the firmness of my shields, nothing is able to pierce [them]. Again [he] praised his spears [and] said the sharpness of my spears, among things there is nothing that they cannot pierce. Someone said use your spears to pierce your shields, how can that be? He was not able to respond to this. It is the case that a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that does not pierce nothing cannot share and stand in [the same] age. | + | Among the people of Chu, [there was] one who sold shields and spears, [he] praised them [and] said the firmness of my shields, nothing is able to pierce '''[them] {00 maybe "it" referring to the firmness?00}''' . Again [he] praised his spears [and] said the sharpness of my spears, among things there is nothing that '''they {%%it%%}''' cannot pierce. Someone said use your spears to pierce your shields, '''how can that be? {%%what would happen/what would it be like?%%}''' He was not able to respond to this. It is the case that a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that does not pierce nothing cannot share and stand in [the same] age. |
==='''Student 10 : Jelena Gledić'''=== | ==='''Student 10 : Jelena Gledić'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | In the state of Chu, there was a man who sold shields and spears. Praising them, he would say: | + | In the state of Chu, there was a man who sold shields and spears. Praising them, he would say: “'''The sturdiness of my shield is such that nothing can pierce it.'''” And then, lauding his spears, he would continue: “'''The sharpness of my spear is such that no thing it touches is left unpierced'''" Someone asked: “And if your spear were to pierce your shield, what would happen?” The man was unable to answer. A shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot exist in the same realm. "Han Feizi" |
==='''Student 11 : (Write your name)'''=== | ==='''Student 11 : (Write your name)'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | + | There was someone in the Chu who '''sells {%%sold%%}''' shields and spears; praising '''them and said {%%them, he said%%}''' “'''{^The^}''' hardness of '''{^my^}''' shield, nothing can pierce it." Also praising the spears and said “'''{^The^}''' sharpness of my spears, [when applied] on things, there is nothing it doesn't pierce.”Someone asked ‘What would happen if you pierce your shields with your spears?' He was not able to answer. So a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot exist together. | |
==='''Student 12 : (Write your name)'''=== | ==='''Student 12 : (Write your name)'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | + | In the state of Chu, there was a person who sold shields and spears. Praising them, he said, | |
| + | “As for the sturdiness of my shields, nothing can penetrate through them” | ||
| + | Again, praising his spears, he said, | ||
| + | “As for the sharpness of my shields, there is nothing they cannot penetrate.” | ||
| + | Someone asked, | ||
| + | “How would it be like if you had your spear penetrate through your shield?” | ||
| + | He could not answer to the question. Indeed, a shield, which cannot be penetrated through, together with a spear, which can penetrate anything, cannot be compatible with each other at the same time. | ||
==='''Student 13 : Ra YeonJae'''=== | ==='''Student 13 : Ra YeonJae'''=== | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | There was a person who sells spears and shields among the people of Chu. Praising them and he said, “the strongness of my shields is like that nothing can go through.” Also, praising the shields and he said, “the sharpness of my spear is like that cannot go through nothing.” Someone asked, “if go through your shield with your spear, how would that be?” The seller could not respond to that. Therefore, a shield that cannot be gone through and a spear that cannot go through nothing could not exist and stand in the same time. | + | There was a person who '''sells {%%sold%%}''' spears and shields among the people of Chu. Praising them and he said, “the '''strongness {%%strength/firmness%%}''' of my shields is '''like {%%such%%}''' that nothing can go through '''{^it^}'''.” Also, praising the shields and he said, “the sharpness of my spear is '''like {%%such%%}''' that '''cannot go through nothing {%%there is nothing that it cannot go through%%}'''.” Someone asked, “if '''go through {%%you pierce%%}''' your shield with your spear, how would that be?” The seller could not respond to that. Therefore, a shield that cannot be gone through and a spear that '''cannot go through nothing {%%nothing can go through%%}''' could not exist and stand in the same time. |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | There was a person who sold spears and shields among the people of Chu. Praising them and he said, “the strength of my shields is like such that nothing can go through it.” Also, praising the shields and he said, “the sharpness of my spear is such that there is nothing that it cannot go through.” Someone asked, “if you pierce your shield with your spear, how would that be?” The seller could not respond to that. Therefore, a shield that cannot be gone through and a spear that nothing can go through could not exist and stand in the same time. | |
2018년 7월 3일 (화) 23:50 기준 최신판
| Primary Source | ||
|---|---|---|
 |
Title | |
| English | Spear and shield | |
| Chinese | 矛盾(Maodun) | |
| Korean(RR) | 모순 | |
| Text Details | ||
| Genre | ||
| Type | ||
| Author(s) | Han Fei zi 韓非子 | |
| Year | ||
| Source | ||
| Key Concepts | ||
| Translation Info | ||
| Translator(s) | Participants of 2017 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate Training Group) | |
| Editor(s) | ||
| Year | 2017 | |
목차
- 1 Original Script
- 2 Translation
- 2.1 [sample] Instructor : Young Kyun Oh
- 2.2 Student 1 : Sanghoon Na
- 2.3 Student 2 : Younès M'Ghari
- 2.4 Student 3 : Petra Sváková
- 2.5 Student 4 : (Write your name)
- 2.6 Student 5 : Jae Yong Chang
- 2.7 Student 6 : (Goeun Lee)
- 2.8 Student 7 : (Alexandre Le Marchand)
- 2.9 Student 8 : Bryan Sauvadet
- 2.10 Student 9 : HeeJin Lee
- 2.11 Student 10 : Jelena Gledić
- 2.12 Student 11 : (Write your name)
- 2.13 Student 12 : (Write your name)
- 2.14 Student 13 : Ra YeonJae
Original Script
Translation
[sample] Instructor : Young Kyun Oh
In the state of Chu (Chinese: 楚), there was a man who sold shields and spears. Praising the spear, he said, "As for the sturdiness of my shield, nothing can break through it." Praising the spear, he said, "As for the sharpness of my spear, [when it is applied] on things, there is nothing it does not break through." Someone said, "If you break through your shield with your spear, what would it be like?" The man could not respond to it. A shield that cannot be broken through and a spear that can break through anything cannot sustain sharing the same time.
Student 1 : Sanghoon Na
There was a man in the state of Chu, who was selling shields and spears. He praised them saying: “My shields are sturdy, and nothing can sink into them.” Again, he praised his spears saying:“My spears are sharp to anything, [so] there is nothing that they cannot sink into.” Someone asked: “If you pierced your shield with your spear, what would it be like?” The man could not answer. So a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot be in the same generation and stand [together].
Student 2 : Younès M'Ghari
Among the people of Chu, there was someone selling spears and shields; he was praising them saying: "[With] The solidity of my shield, nothing can go through [it]." Again, he praised his spear saying: "[With] The sharpness of my spear, there is nothing that it does not go through." Someone said: Your spear going through your shield (%% If you lanced/pierced your shield with your spear,%%), how would that be ?" To this, he could not answer. As a matter of fact, a shield that nothing can go through and a spear that can go through anything cannot coexist in the same time.
Student 3 : Petra Sváková
Among the people of the state Chu, there was a man who was selling a spear and a shield and he was praising them and said: "My shield is so strong that nothing can pierce it." Also he praised his spear saying: "There is nothing among things the sharpness of my spear cannot penetrate." Someone said: "[What if I try to] pierce your shield with your spear, how would that be?" He could not response to that. So the shield which cannot be penetrated and the spear which cannot be pierced, they cannot exist in the same generation.
Student 4 : (Write your name)
In the state of Chu there was a man who sold shields and spears.
Praising them, he said: "The sturdiness of my shields [is such that] nothing can pierce them."
Again praising his spears, he said: "The sharpness of my spears against anything [is such that there is] nothing [it] pierces not."
Someone asked, "Using your spears to pierce your shields, how's that like?"
He could not answer.
So, a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear [with] nothing [it] pierces not cannot [within the] same time exist.
Student 5 : Jae Yong Chang
There was a man in the state of Chu who was selling a shield and a spear. (He was) proudly {%%He praised them,%%) saying that his shield was so strong that nothing made it damaged. Saying again, {Again, praising them}%%, he said my spear was also so sharp on anything that it’s impossible to be damaged {%%that it can make damage on anything%%}. A person asked, "if you were to take your spear to strike your shield, what would happen? Then he couldn’t answer. Generally speaking, a shield that cannot be damaged and a spear that cannot be damaged {%%that can damage anything%%}, cannot be in the same world and exist.
Student 6 : (Goeun Lee)
Among the Chu people, there was a person selling shields and spears. Proudly {%%Praising them,%%} he said, “My shield is strong, so {%%With the hardness of my shield,%%} nothing can make a hole in it!” He also boasted his spears saying, “My spear is sharp, so {%%The sharpness of my spear%%} there is nothing it cannot penetrate.” {00how do you reflect 於物?00} Someone said, “[Try] your spear on your shield to make a hole. How about that?”That person was unable to answer to that. Surely it is impossible that a shield which is unpenetrable {%%impenetrable%%%} and a spear which penetrates everything coexist in the same age.
Student 7 : (Alexandre Le Marchand)
In the kingdom {%%State%%} of Chu was a man selling spears and shields. He praises it saying this: “the hardness of my shields, there is nothing that can break through it”. And then he adds praise about he’s {%%his%%%} shield saying: “the sharpness of my spear, there is nothing it can’t be damage {%%that cannot be damaged%%} by it”. Someone said: “What {%%How%%} about using one of your spears to break through one of your shields?” The seller was unable to respond to this. Well, there is no way a spear is damageable without any damaged shield. {00 This part is not clear. Retry?00} It cannot occur at the same moment and both standing up. it do not damaging a shield.
Student 8 : Bryan Sauvadet
楚人有鬻楯與矛者，譽之曰吾楯之堅，莫能陷也。
In the kingdom {%%State%%} of Chu 楚 , there was a man who sells {%%sold%%} shields and spears. He praised the hardness of his shields {00 just "shield" may be ok for 之, but "the hardness..." is too much and better be added in the next clause00}; such {^that^} he said, “To the views of my shields, {00This is not clear. Which part does it translate?00} nothing can break through it.”
又譽其矛曰吾矛之利，於物無不陷也。
Also, he praised his spear and said “To {%%With%%} the hardness of my spears, there is nothing it cannot spike into.
或曰以子之矛陷子之楯，何如？
Someone question the seller and said “If you pierce your shield with your spear, what’s going to happen?”
其人弗能應也。
The man couldn’t respond.
夫不可陷之楯與無不陷之矛，不可同世而立。
So, a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot share a generation and stand together.
《韓非.難一》
Student 9 : HeeJin Lee
Among the people of Chu, [there was] one who sold shields and spears, [he] praised them [and] said the firmness of my shields, nothing is able to pierce [them] {00 maybe "it" referring to the firmness?00} . Again [he] praised his spears [and] said the sharpness of my spears, among things there is nothing that they {%%it%%} cannot pierce. Someone said use your spears to pierce your shields, how can that be? {%%what would happen/what would it be like?%%} He was not able to respond to this. It is the case that a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that does not pierce nothing cannot share and stand in [the same] age.
Student 10 : Jelena Gledić
In the state of Chu, there was a man who sold shields and spears. Praising them, he would say: “The sturdiness of my shield is such that nothing can pierce it.” And then, lauding his spears, he would continue: “The sharpness of my spear is such that no thing it touches is left unpierced" Someone asked: “And if your spear were to pierce your shield, what would happen?” The man was unable to answer. A shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot exist in the same realm. "Han Feizi"
Student 11 : (Write your name)
There was someone in the Chu who sells {%%sold%%} shields and spears; praising them and said {%%them, he said%%} “{^The^} hardness of {^my^} shield, nothing can pierce it." Also praising the spears and said “{^The^} sharpness of my spears, [when applied] on things, there is nothing it doesn't pierce.”Someone asked ‘What would happen if you pierce your shields with your spears?' He was not able to answer. So a shield that cannot be pierced and a spear that can pierce anything cannot exist together.
Student 12 : (Write your name)
In the state of Chu, there was a person who sold shields and spears. Praising them, he said, “As for the sturdiness of my shields, nothing can penetrate through them” Again, praising his spears, he said, “As for the sharpness of my shields, there is nothing they cannot penetrate.” Someone asked, “How would it be like if you had your spear penetrate through your shield?” He could not answer to the question. Indeed, a shield, which cannot be penetrated through, together with a spear, which can penetrate anything, cannot be compatible with each other at the same time.
Student 13 : Ra YeonJae
There was a person who sells {%%sold%%} spears and shields among the people of Chu. Praising them and he said, “the strongness {%%strength/firmness%%} of my shields is like {%%such%%} that nothing can go through {^it^}.” Also, praising the shields and he said, “the sharpness of my spear is like {%%such%%} that cannot go through nothing {%%there is nothing that it cannot go through%%}.” Someone asked, “if go through {%%you pierce%%} your shield with your spear, how would that be?” The seller could not respond to that. Therefore, a shield that cannot be gone through and a spear that cannot go through nothing {%%nothing can go through%%} could not exist and stand in the same time.
There was a person who sold spears and shields among the people of Chu. Praising them and he said, “the strength of my shields is like such that nothing can go through it.” Also, praising the shields and he said, “the sharpness of my spear is such that there is nothing that it cannot go through.” Someone asked, “if you pierce your shield with your spear, how would that be?” The seller could not respond to that. Therefore, a shield that cannot be gone through and a spear that nothing can go through could not exist and stand in the same time.
