(Translation) 朝三暮四 - 편집 역사

2019년 7월 1일 (월) 17:00에 Lotus님의 편집

2019-07-01T17:00:28Z

2018년 7월 18일 (수) 23:51에 Admin님의 편집

2018-07-18T23:51:34Z

2018년 7월 18일 (수) 23:43에 Admin님의 편집

2018-07-18T23:43:25Z

Nanlin: /* Translation */

2018-07-11T13:58:50Z

‎Translation

Youngoh64: /* Translation */

2018-07-09T22:44:54Z

‎Translation

Youngoh64: /* Kathy Lin */

2018-07-09T22:43:23Z

‎Kathy Lin

Nanlin: /* Kathy Lin */

2018-07-08T22:52:42Z

‎Kathy Lin

Nanlin: /* Kathy Lin */

2018-07-08T22:50:40Z

‎Kathy Lin

Nanlin: /* Translation */

2018-07-08T22:50:19Z

‎Translation

Nanlin: /* Translation */

2018-07-08T22:42:31Z

‎Translation

@@ 1번째 줄: / 1번째 줄: @@
 {{Primary Source Document3
-|Image = 조삼모사.jpg
+|Image = 2019조삼모사.jpg
 |English =
 |Chinese =

@@ 9번째 줄: / 9번째 줄: @@
 |Year =
 |Key Concepts=
-|Translator = [[2018 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate)#Participants | Participants of 2018 Hanmun Summer Workshop (Intermediate Training Group)]]
+|Translator = [[2018 Summer Hanmun Workshop (Intermediate)#Participants | Participants of 2018 Summer Hanmun Workshop (Intermediate Training Group)]]
 |Editor =
 |Translation Year = 2018
@@ 45번째 줄: / 45번째 줄: @@
-[[Category:2018 Hanmun Summer Workshop]]
+[[Category:2018 Summer Hanmun Workshop]]
 [[Category:Intermediate Training Group]]

@@ 13번째 줄: / 13번째 줄: @@
 |Translation Year = 2018
 }}
 =='''Original Script'''==

@@ 34번째 줄: / 34번째 줄: @@
 + Several translation choices that can be deliberated are: "the order of things" for 天钧 and "both/and" for 两行<br />
 (YO) "The order of things" sounds Foucauldian...and interestingly fitting! But since, according to the ''Hanyu da cidian'', the earliest use of 鈞 had something to do with musical scale (《國語‧周語下》：『是故先王之制鍾也，大不出鈞，重不過石。』〈韋昭〉注：『鈞，所以鈞音之法也。以木長七尺者弦繫之以為鈞法。』) and weight balance and unit (《呂氏春秋‧仲春》：『日夜分，則同度量，鈞衡石，角斗桶，正權概。』〈高誘〉注：『鈞，銓。』), perhaps we can call it "Heavenly Scale" or even "Universal Scale"? For 兩行, the idea is to apply/practice that two seemingly incompatible propositions. Some translated "double walks," "proceeding in two ways," "proceeding at two levels," etc.<br />
 + 莫 means literally, evening or dusk, but using the word "night" has more of a bite to it in English, thinking of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." I'll take the stand that a less literal translation choice is justified to create snappiness or "bite" in the resulting translation. We can debate this.<br />
 (YO) Good point of discussion. To what degree and extent can we allow (or actively consider) less literal translation? How do we identify (and agree on) snappiness and "bite"?

@@ 26번째 줄: / 26번째 줄: @@
 Three in the morning, four at night
-We struggle in our minds and spirits to unify things, and we don’t realize they are all the same. This is called three in the morning. What is called three in the morning? The monkey master gave out acorns, saying, “Three in the morning and four at night.” The monkeys were all furious. The monkey master said, “In that case, four in the morning and three at night.” The monkeys were all overjoyed. In name and in actuality there has been no harm done. Rather, joy and anger have their uses; they also are based on what people think right. This is how the sage harmonizes the people with right and wrong and rests in the order of things.  We call this the way of both/and.{{Ref}}
+We struggle in our minds and spirits to unify things, and we don’t realize they are all the same. This is called three in the morning. What is called three in the morning? The monkey master gave out acorns, saying, “Three in the morning and four at night.” The monkeys were all furious. The monkey master said, “In that case, four in the morning and three at night.” The monkeys were all overjoyed. In name and in actuality there has been no harm done. Rather, joy and anger have their uses; they also are based on what people think right. This is how the sage harmonizes the people with right and wrong and rests in the order of things.  We call this the way of both/and.
 ==='''Kathy Lin'''===
@@ 36번째 줄: / 34번째 줄: @@
 + Several translation choices that can be deliberated are: "the order of things" for 天钧 and "both/and" for 两行<br />
 (YO) "The order of things" sounds Foucauldian...and interestingly fitting! But since, according to the ''Hanyu da cidian'', the earliest use of 鈞 had something to do with musical scale (《國語‧周語下》：『是故先王之制鍾也，大不出鈞，重不過石。』〈韋昭〉注：『鈞，所以鈞音之法也。以木長七尺者弦繫之以為鈞法。』) and weight balance and unit (《呂氏春秋‧仲春》：『日夜分，則同度量，鈞衡石，角斗桶，正權概。』〈高誘〉注：『鈞，銓。』), perhaps we can call it "Heavenly Scale" or even "Universal Scale"? For 兩行, the idea is to apply/practice that two seemingly incompatible propositions. Some translated "double walks," "proceeding in two ways," "proceeding at two levels," etc.<br />
- + 莫means literally, evening or dusk, but using the word "night" has more of a bite to it in English, thinking of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." I'll take the stand that a less literal translation choice is justified to create snappiness or "bite" in the resulting translation. We can debate this.
++ 莫 means literally, evening or dusk, but using the word "night" has more of a bite to it in English, thinking of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." I'll take the stand that a less literal translation choice is justified to create snappiness or "bite" in the resulting translation. We can debate this.<br />
 (YO) Good point of discussion. To what degree and extent can we allow (or actively consider) less literal translation? How do we identify (and agree on) snappiness and "bite"?

← 이전 판		2018년 7월 8일 (일) 22:52 판
36번째 줄:		36번째 줄:
	+ Several translation choices that can be deliberated are: "the order of things" for 天钧 and "both/and" for 两行		+ Several translation choices that can be deliberated are: "the order of things" for 天钧 and "both/and" for 两行

−	+ 莫means literally, evening or dusk, but using the word "night" has more of a bite to it in English, thinking of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." I'll take the stand that a less literal translation choice is justified to create snappiness or "bite" in the resulting translation~~, but we~~ can debate this.	+	+ 莫means literally, evening or dusk, but using the word "night" has more of a bite to it in English, thinking of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." I'll take the stand that a less literal translation choice is justified to create snappiness or "bite" in the resulting translation. We can debate this.

@@ 35번째 줄: / 35번째 줄: @@
 *Discussion Questions:
 + Several translation choices that can be deliberated are: "the order of things" for 天钧 and "both/and" for 两行
 + 莫means literally, evening or dusk, but using the word "night" has more of a bite to it in English, thinking of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." I'll take the stand that a less literal translation choice is justified to create snappiness or "bite" in the resulting translation, but we can debate this.